The Subtle Art of Buying the Top

Can we get a round of applause in the crowd if you own Bitcoin?

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Looks like we came to the right place. Let's get a round of applause if you own more than one Bitcoin. Bashful little bachelors. No, they're just bragging.

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I'm Ryan and this is Danny. When they asked us to do this conference, I said we want 20 Bitcoin apiece and 30% of Michael Saylor's yacht. They said no, it's a bear market. But we were able to acquire 34 shares of a little company called Nakamoto. Bit of a nest egg.

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The reason they made that deal is because who is better to talk about Bitcoin than two comedian podcasters who own upwards of four digits of Bitcoin USD combined?

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I'm sure everyone here has been in a situation where people in your life do not want to hear about Bitcoin. I was in a situation recently where I was explaining Bitcoin as a revolution fighting against a corrupt banking system, and if Jerome Powell was here right now, I would smash his teeth in. Then I was told that my Uncle Frank's funeral was not the right place or time for that ten-hour speech.

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My Uncle Frank may have died of cancer, but the real cancer is endless money printing. That's what I screamed as I was dragged out of the funeral, ripping my favorite sleeveless HODL T-shirt, knocking over my PowerPoint projector, and getting banned from Uncle Frank's wake.

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Luckily, Uncle Frank's wake didn't have security. I was able to sneak in and finish explaining to Uncle Frank's wife the lesson she should have learned about scarcity. It is not a coincidence that now that there are zero Uncle Franks, everyone wants him more. If the government could just print Uncle Franks, then Uncle Frank would be worthless, just like the fiat trash that Uncle Frank left his family in the will.

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As I came to after being knocked unconscious by my central bank bootlicker cousin, I realized that I'm the only HODLer in this whole family. Probably what gave Uncle Frank cancer, leading to his demise.

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You are probably wondering what the moral of this story is. The moral is that you can lead a horse to Bitcoin, but what you cannot do is make Uncle Frank's paper-hands grieving widow ape in.

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I, too, have experienced some hardship in my quest to become a wholecoiner. A few years ago, I took out a second mortgage in order to buy Bitcoin with moderate leverage: 20 times. Now, instead of being a wholecoiner, I'm a zero-houser and a zero-wifer, much to my surprise.

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While I'm miserable, Sheila and her pathetic new fiat-millionaire boyfriend who drives a Porsche Boxster are happier than they have ever been. But they won't be for long, as Jerome Powell debases the currency and I debase myself by showing up to their house one last time to explain how many sats I've been stacking, and that if we could just take her Roth IRA and put it all into Bitcoin, instead of splitting it as ordered by the courts, David wouldn't have to pay for my son's leg-lengthening surgery. Maybe the two of them could learn to love me once again. It seems like it's going to take severe hyperinflation for her to even return my calls.

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Spoken like a true bull. I'm such a bull. Check out this Craigslist ad I posted: will have sex with your wife for $25. Sorry, that's the wrong one. I have a Bitcoin one: will have sex with your wife for 20,000 sats. Now we're talking.

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We are happy to be here at the Venetian. I was actually with my wife in the lobby earlier. Someone came up to me and invited us to a key party. I said, I'm not going to any party where I have to bring my Bitcoin keys. My wife went without me. She spent the night there. She's still there now, and I hope she's having a good time.

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With that being said, we are going to bring out our panel. First up, we have CEO of bitsurance, Chris Seedor. Following him, we have Erin Redwing from the Hell Money Podcast. Finally, the CEO and CTO of River, Alex Leishman.

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So happy to be here. Alex, before the show we were chatting and you mentioned that you thought Bitcoin was a scam. Do you still think that?

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That was supposed to be off the record, right?

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You did have ten whiskeys, so sometimes things get said. We have a few questions. You may have heard our speech. We've all been in a situation where we want our family to sell the Roth IRA, unload the retirement, and invest in Bitcoin. They don't want to listen. How do you get your family to understand the importance of Bitcoin? We'll start with you, Chris.

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You just live it. They will see how they are not outperforming inflation. Sooner or later, in four or five years, they will see.

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But it takes five years. Maybe six. What if they don't have five years to live?

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Then you better be in their will.

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For me, I'm the Bitcoiner in my relationship. So you have to get the wife into Bitcoin first and then let her handle all of the finances. I think that's the only strategy.

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That's the opposite of Danny's experience. What about you, Alex?

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For me, it was convincing my mom. Honestly, I think it was just timing it right. I said, hey, you guys should buy some Bitcoin. The price started going up, and they were like, sign me up.

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That doesn't work the other way around, though, when you get them to buy and then the price goes down.

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What happened to buy the top?

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We bought at 125. Is that good?

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I think that's where Nakamoto bought all their Bitcoin too, so that's been really good.

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This is more of a real-world application. Women love gifts. What I like to do with my ex-wife is, instead of giving her flowers, I would give her the dollar value of the flowers in Bitcoin. She hated it. How can I convince a woman that Bitcoin is the future of money? And if the three of you could please use girl math and show your work.

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I can explain that clearly. When diamonds are forever, sats are even more forever. So obviously that's the best gift.

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Maybe like a hard drive on a ring?

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A hard drive, like an OpenDime. Softer wallets. Very romantic.

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Maybe a thumb drive on a necklace?

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Honestly, the thing that got me into Bitcoin was astrology. Economics is like boy pseudoscience. Astrology is like girl pseudoscience. You just have to show your wife the Bitcoin natal chart, January 3, 2009, the Genesis block, and say, oh my gosh, Bitcoin is a Capricorn. It's totally going to make it.

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What does astrology tell us about the future price of Bitcoin?

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July 2026 is looking pretty good. It's kind of down from there. Just letting you all know. Get in while you can and get out while you can.

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I've been telling people for years that you'll be able to use Bitcoin as the new money. Recently I went to a burger place and tried to buy stuff with Bitcoin. I got into an altercation. He started yelling at me, this isn't a burger place, please put your clothes back on. When will Bitcoin be the new money? When can we use it everywhere?

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It is. Jack Dorsey has about 4 million Square terminals in the United States. You can use it everywhere. Every good and service you can purchase for Bitcoin these days.

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If you have a merchant that has a Square terminal, you can go there and harass the poor barista and say, hey, I was told on the internet, on Twitter, that I can pay in Bitcoin here. And they can be like, sir, can you please get out of here? This is not a burger joint.

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I think we have a ways to go. I think it's going to be a while.

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In the meantime, you need to be more aggressive with cashiers.

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Exactly. Really the problem is we're not aggressive enough when buying our coffee and telling the minimum-wage employees that they need to learn to accept Bitcoin.

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Do you even want to buy stuff with Bitcoin?

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I think maximalists do not, in my experience.

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I think it is going to get more popular. Block is leading the charge with the Square terminals, and it is just going to take time to normalize that. In my last presentation, I showed a slide with a globe and gold dots for every business accepting Bitcoin, and that is accelerating a lot. But I think we are only at tens of thousands of businesses. We need an order of magnitude to go before anyone says, oh yeah, that's kind of normal now. It is going to take some time.

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But do you want to spend it? It is an asset that has a CAGR of 30% to 60% a year. You would assume it is better to just hold it. But I personally believe you need to spend and replace. Otherwise it is just a shiny rock. It is no better than gold. Some people need to use it as money, and we are moving toward that.

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We've been talking a lot of Bitcoin mumbo jumbo. Can we cut this for a second? We're all just hoping the number goes up. When you are buying, can you give me tips? What I like to do is buy Bitcoin whenever I see people I went to high school with tweeting about it a lot, or posting about it on Facebook. Whenever I see Dave Portnoy day trading for days on end, I usually think this is a buy sign. This is about to go to the moon.

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Portnoy is a top signal. I would disagree.

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Really? I would have thought the other way around. That may explain our poor performance. I normally like to buy Bitcoin when Google searches are the highest they have ever been.

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There's nowhere else to go but up.

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I think you guys should sell trading classes. You should do a trading course and sell subscriptions.

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We have. They all asked for their money back. We're currently in some legal trouble for that. What are some top and bottom signs?

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For me, a good bottom sign is when nobody is talking about it and the room is kind of empty.

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Buy, buy, buy.

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In all seriousness, if you look at who is doing really well in the bull market, it is people who prepared when everyone else was not paying attention and things were quiet.

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We have some questions here that were written for us by the Bitcoin Conference, and they have forced us to ask these. We didn't write these. They said, please ask the panelists these questions. First up: out of Hawk Tuah, Milei, and Melania Trump, who is the greatest crypto rug puller of all time? And do you think there needs to be any regulation?

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None of the above. It is the Federal Reserve.

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You hear that, Jay Powell?

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That is the correct answer.

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I'll do a different one for Bitcoin or crypto specifically. I would say EOS. It was a coin that was really popular years ago and got people to give them a bunch of Bitcoin in return for their new coin. They worked on it for a little bit and stopped working on it, and now they're sitting on one of the biggest Bitcoin stacks in the world.

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He bought a very nice house in Sicily last year, so the money went somewhere good.

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My mother lost so much money on Hawk Tuah coin. I just keep telling her bottoming is a process and it is time in the market, not timing the market.

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You have a lot of experience with bottoming, I would say.

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This is also written by the Bitcoin Conference. Both our wives have been having sex with other men behind our backs, most of which are fiat slaves. Problem is, they have denied this. Could women's lying be solved by having women's sexual history ledgered on the blockchain? If not, what could be?

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I think you would run into the oracle problem. That's the only thing preventing that.

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What's the oracle problem?

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You have a centralized authority. The only interface between the real world and the digital world is energy. That's why proof of work is the only thing that works. All the other things have some central database editor.

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But what if there was a Worldcoin orb that was watching and attesting? Maybe there is something there.

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My body count is super high, but nobody ever believes me, so this would actually help me out.

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Could the Epstein files or something like that be on the blockchain?

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They did actually inscribe many of the WikiLeaks documents onto Bitcoin. Bitcoin is uncensored, so anything you put onto it cannot be removed. I would like to see whistleblowers using this technology more, to be honest. I think it is a really good power to fight that kind of authoritarianism.

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Bitcoin is for money. It is not a database.

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Is this a schism? Like, stop putting your info on my Bitcoin?

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Yeah. Don't JPEG on my node, please.

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Why is that a problem? Is it sullying the reputation of Bitcoin? Is it making it unserious?

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Can it be less serious? I mean, it doesn't do anything to my node. My node has been running fine for like a decade.

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There is some pretty disgusting stuff on there.

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Yeah, but you don't have to look at it. You don't have to search for it.

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But some of us can't help it.

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Can we put some memes on your node?

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I have put memes on the node, but they were good memes. I get to decide, though.

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Some of the promises that we have been telling people about Bitcoin have not panned out. People talk about Bitcoin decoupling from the stock market. So far, it has only decoupled my relationship with my wife and child. Will Bitcoin ever decouple from equities? Does it need to? And final question: how do I get to see my family again?

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In the next bull market. I think they will contact you. You have to wait for it.

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Your wife isn't interested until 100.

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I disagree. We've had some problems, but they always come back.

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In terms of decoupling Bitcoin from the stock market, it seems like the stock market has completely decoupled from reality. I think in Bitcoin world we think Bitcoin is going to mature, become more like traditional finance, and become less volatile. What has actually happened is the opposite. The stock market and traditional finance have gone completely wild west. It is worse than crypto at this point.

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So the stock market is the new Bitcoin, and Bitcoin is the new stock market?

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The stock market is the new Hawk Tuah coin.

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I think what we are seeing in the stock market is the fiat system breaking. The dollar does not mean anything anymore, and people are diving into whatever gives them some hope for the future. Right now, that is AI and maybe space stuff. Bitcoin is serving as a relatively stable store of value compared to the stock market. I agree with Erin. Bitcoin will reliably build wealth over the long term. The stock market is kind of like something else.

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Let me pitch you something: AI Bitcoin in space.

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I think you could get probably $10 million of VC funding.

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SpaceX owns Bitcoin, and there is an AI company.

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But how do we get the Bitcoin in space?

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We have the Blockstream satellite. We have nodes in space. We can send a Bitcoin transaction without internet.

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There is a little bit of lore that I don't think anyone knows. I have a friend who used to work at NASA, and he actually sent a Bitcoin private key to space years ago. So Bitcoin has already been to space.

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Many don't know Erin also worked at NASA.

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Before I was an astrologer, I was an astronomer.

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You went from astronomer to astrologer?

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That's the pipeline.

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Is that how you got the boot from NASA? You started getting into too much astrology?

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I went from astronomer to astrologer to Bitcoiner.

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People talk about Bitcoin being a hedge against inflation, but in October 2025 I bought nine Bitcoin highly levered. The only thing it hedged against was my ability to pay rent, my ability to make bail after I got caught dining and dashing at Applebee's, my ability to get taken off the no-fly list, my ability to not start the day with a six-pack of Miller High Life, my ability to not get kicked out of my stepdad's studio apartment for drinking his Miller High Life, and my ability to not get served a summons for my alleged involvement in January 6. With all that being said, what does Bitcoin hedge against?

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Fiat debasement. But you have to lower your time preference.

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It is an option on a hedge against inflation.

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Alex, do you use Bitcoin to hedge against inflation?

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Absolutely. I think Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation. To me, it is also a hedge on your time. Bitcoin is this reliable thing to put your wealth in and not spend your time paying attention to the insane financialization of everything else. You can focus on the one thing you do really well in life that actually produces value. That is one of the main benefits of Bitcoin that people do not talk about much.

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It is a hedge against authorities. You can have free speech only if you have free money, and Bitcoin gives you this uncensorable power. You can send a transaction and nobody, no government, can stop it. We see this in America. We see this in Iran. It is a hedge against authorities.

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Why can't we just make our own Bitcoin?

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You can. It will suck, but you can.

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I think you guys should try it. I think you have something here.

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That's funny because we did. Can we get a round of applause for making your own Bitcoin? We started our own Bitcoin. If anyone is interested in getting in on the ground floor, let me pull up the contract address. Actually, some of these are caps, and this might be case sensitive. If anyone is interested, find me after. I'll give it to you personally.

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We actually followed Michael Saylor to the bathroom and pitched him our new project. Michael Saylor said no, and I looked him in the face and said, well, Michael Saylor, that's the biggest mistake you ever made in your life, because you just created 100 Michael Saylors.

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We weren't going to do this, and event organizers specifically asked us not to do this, but I'm announcing right now our own Bitcoin treasury company called Macro Strategy. Any money you give us, we will invest in our Bitcoin, which is on Solana. I don't know what that is, but it is cash only.

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MicroStrategy has around 800,000 Bitcoin. Macro Strategy currently holds 77 million of our Bitcoins. Would you rather be macro or micro?

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To be honest, you guys are giving me micro vibes.

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Small macro energy. I hate to break it to you, but Michael Saylor also owns the domain macrostrategy. He came prepared.

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I'm looking at my horoscope right now, and it says Leo packing heat. How do you explain that?

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Are you actually Leo?

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Sure. You want to give us a cold reading? Leo and Sagittarius.

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That explains a lot. A lot of hot air going on over here.

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What are you?

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I'm also Leo.

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Of course. I saw that a mile away.

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On the topic of hacking, some people are saying that Bitcoin encryption can be hacked by quantum computers. Is this something people should be worried about?

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No.

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Erin?

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Seems like you might have something personally to worry about, but I'm not worried about it personally.

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Alex? Quantum?

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I don't think we need to worry, but I think we should be prudently researching and getting ahead of a potential long-term risk there.

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Prudently, but not Alex Prudently.

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The short answer is no. The longer answer is there is great research happening with Blockstream and other developers working toward having something if this were to be a problem. I think that is good work to be doing.

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What exactly is the problem if it comes?

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The concern is that if a quantum computer, which we probably are pretty far from ever having exist, and it is still an open question if they can ever really be viable, could theoretically allow somebody who has that computer to steal your private keys.

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Everybody knows our Bitcoin on Macro Strategy cannot be hacked. We take a lot of security protocols.

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On the topic of hacking, I take a lot of security protocols whenever I cyber with my current girlfriend for money. I insist she says Kim Jong Un is gay, and also that I'm a good boy who finishes in the right amount of time. How do you stay safe from hackers?

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Are you worried about the cyber girlfriend being a hacker?

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That's why they say Kim Jong Un is gay.

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Because she would never say that if she were a hacker?

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She's not allowed to say that.

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You probably have to prepare a couple more lines like that to make sure you cover all your bases. It is not the only country that could be targeting you. But I think you are on to something.

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It is time for the lightning round. Again, this was provided by the conference. So: marry, have sex with, kill: Bitcoin, Jim Cramer, Peter Schiff. We'll start with you, Chris.

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I would marry Bitcoin. I would kill Jim Cramer. And Peter Schiff, I think he's cute.

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Same answer. Obviously everyone here is going to say marry Bitcoin. You kind of set us up for that. So really it is just a question of who you want to have sex with.

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It is just a question of whether you are having sex with Jim Cramer or killing Jim Cramer.

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Exactly. And I have to pick Peter Schiff.

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Alex?

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I'm going to switch it up. Bitcoin, Jim Cramer, Peter Schiff. I think Jim Cramer would be a fun guy to talk to every day. I think he would bring the energy. Imagine you walk around and there are sound effects playing every day in your house.

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I would personally pick Jim Cramer just because it would be a bit of a change from the last ten years of him doing that to me. I would marry Bitcoin, and then of course we know what we're doing with Peter Schiff.

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I would pick Bitcoin, marry Bitcoin, and kill my Uncle Frank's wife.

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Do you think Satoshi is Rick Moranis? Because we also haven't seen him since 2009.

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That is a theory that can be explored. In the last four weeks, we have had about eight different Satoshis.

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Was there an HBO documentary?

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Is Rick Moranis part of the CIA?

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Could have been.

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He was in everything, and now he's just gone.

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Very likely.

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Do you have any theories on who Satoshi might be?

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I have theories, but I think it is sort of a gentleman's agreement to not publicize them.

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Now that we're kind of Bitcoin guys, is that something we should know?

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You are painting a very big target, like a $1 billion target, on somebody when you say that.

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We probably shouldn't have said that. You heard it here first: Peter Schiff is Satoshi.

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I have a question, again from the Bitcoin Conference. In 2010, there was a guy who bought Papa John's pizza for 10,000 Bitcoin. Do you think he should be allowed to say the N-word even once?

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Let's put this racially loaded question onto the German. I'm going to abstain.

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I think we need to ask Jesse Jackson.

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Does the alignment of Jupiter and Mars think that he should be able to say the N-word?

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No.

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The N-word is no-coiner. No, you can't say that.

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The real N-word is no. We're at a Bitcoin conference. What did you think we were talking about?

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We want to thank our fantastic panel. Most importantly, for amateurs such as ourselves or anyone else in the crowd, what is the biggest takeaway? What did we miss? What should we learn if we're Bitcoin for dummies?

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Buy Bitcoin instead of closing Bitcoin, and self custody. Not your keys, not your coins.

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We've been trying with you, and you've been giving us nothing. We're not really happy about it. This was the worst 34 shares of Nakamoto I've ever performed for.

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Bitcoin is the technology for the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. So if you believe in that, you should probably own some.

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If you believe in that, buy Bitcoin. You heard it right here.

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I'll second Chris. Bitcoin and self custody are very important. It is really important that you know what to do with your Bitcoin if you don't trust the institutions anymore.

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Thank you so much for coming on this panel. Thank you to everyone who came to see our panel this early in the day. We very much appreciate it. One, two, three: not your keys, not your coins. Thank you very much.